I am getting more and more suspicious that things re my G G Grandmother(the french one) may not be so straight forward.
On her wedding cert to my G G Grandfather she gives her name as Virginie Hemsley, father Joseph, born in France, British Subject. And her year of birth, based on her age is 1837.
Speaking with the census office in Calais they have a girl being born in 1837 to Joseph Hemsley but her name is Marie Josephine Petronille Hemsley.
Now family verbal history had her name as Virginie Lebegue or Lebeq. So why so many names?
Why would she call herself Virginie when her name was Marie? Unless it was assumed, being Catholic, that Marie meant Virginie Marie?
But the surname confusion is odd. Is it possible that Virginie Hemsley married Monsieur Lebegue before she married G G Granfather? Or could it be the other way around and Virginie Lebegue married Monsieur Hemsley. It is possible, as she married in the UK, that she ignored any previous french spouses?
I can't find any record of her marrying in France but then again, I don't know what name she would have used!
If she had to prove her identity in england she may have used a passport which would have been in her married name of Hemsley? Then, when asked her fathers name would just say "Joseph" and the registrar would assume Hemsley.
It is all supposition. But this is the only way i can get my head around the wandering names and lack of records.
L
Friday, 18 February 2011
Wednesday, 16 February 2011
Frustration
OK, getting more frustrated by the day. I simply cannot find my G G Grandfather in 1891. It doesn't really matter as I have him in 1901 and 1911 but I am a completist and I want to know his full story.
I have my suspicions that he was hiding somewhere. Here's why:
Samuel Fox Sansom was born in about 1839. No father on his birth certificate but his mother, Hannah Samson was living with a Joseph Fox at the time so we assume Joseph is Sam's father. Later Hannah and Joseph marry and Sam becomes Samuel Sansom Fox.
He marries in about 1858 a lady called Virginie Hemsley who was born in France but a British Citizen. They go on to have 4 children and Virginie dies in 1869.
Sam then marries Esther Chapman shortly after and they go on to have a few kids.
In 1881 Sam and Esther are on the census together in Nottingham and Sam is calling himself Samuel Fox.
In 1891 Esther is with her daughter and son in law with the kids and calls herself a widdow. Sam has vanished.
Sam reappears in 1901 calling himself Samuel Sansome. he is living with a "servant" called Agnes Annie Bosorth who has a couple of kids, one of which is Sarah Fox Bosworth. Agnes's first child, Harry was born in 1893. Sam is calling himself a widower although Esther his wife is still alive.
So we are assuming that Sam in around 1890 meets Agnes Annie (who is much younger) at work (both in the lace industry) and starts an affair. Somehow Esther finds out so by the 1891 census she has left him and is saying she is a widow to avoid the shame. Sam is hiding out somewhere (hiding from his inlaws maybe). Agnes is not with him.
But this family doesn't stop here. Sam's son, Joseph Samuel Fox is also a nuisance.
He is born in 1865 and we have him in all the census. But in 1891 he has "acquired" 4 children. OK, all their birth dates are since the 1881 census. But 3 of them are recorded as being born in France. We have no record of him ever going to France!
His wife, Agnes Rogers is with her family in 1891 and is using the surname Fox and calls herself married (the kids are with her) but we can't find her marrying Joseph until 1894 ish. So we are wondering if a) she went to France, not Joseph, and married a french man and had the kids over there then came back tothe UK and married Joseph later or did the 2 of them go off to France sayign they were a married couple, then come back and decide after 4 kids were born taht they really should make it official?
I ma struggling to find anything in the French records as they may fall somewhere in the middle being British citizens in France - would they be required to register any births?
But i will keep fighting the records. I will find the answer eventually.
I have my suspicions that he was hiding somewhere. Here's why:
Samuel Fox Sansom was born in about 1839. No father on his birth certificate but his mother, Hannah Samson was living with a Joseph Fox at the time so we assume Joseph is Sam's father. Later Hannah and Joseph marry and Sam becomes Samuel Sansom Fox.
He marries in about 1858 a lady called Virginie Hemsley who was born in France but a British Citizen. They go on to have 4 children and Virginie dies in 1869.
Sam then marries Esther Chapman shortly after and they go on to have a few kids.
In 1881 Sam and Esther are on the census together in Nottingham and Sam is calling himself Samuel Fox.
In 1891 Esther is with her daughter and son in law with the kids and calls herself a widdow. Sam has vanished.
Sam reappears in 1901 calling himself Samuel Sansome. he is living with a "servant" called Agnes Annie Bosorth who has a couple of kids, one of which is Sarah Fox Bosworth. Agnes's first child, Harry was born in 1893. Sam is calling himself a widower although Esther his wife is still alive.
So we are assuming that Sam in around 1890 meets Agnes Annie (who is much younger) at work (both in the lace industry) and starts an affair. Somehow Esther finds out so by the 1891 census she has left him and is saying she is a widow to avoid the shame. Sam is hiding out somewhere (hiding from his inlaws maybe). Agnes is not with him.
But this family doesn't stop here. Sam's son, Joseph Samuel Fox is also a nuisance.
He is born in 1865 and we have him in all the census. But in 1891 he has "acquired" 4 children. OK, all their birth dates are since the 1881 census. But 3 of them are recorded as being born in France. We have no record of him ever going to France!
His wife, Agnes Rogers is with her family in 1891 and is using the surname Fox and calls herself married (the kids are with her) but we can't find her marrying Joseph until 1894 ish. So we are wondering if a) she went to France, not Joseph, and married a french man and had the kids over there then came back tothe UK and married Joseph later or did the 2 of them go off to France sayign they were a married couple, then come back and decide after 4 kids were born taht they really should make it official?
I ma struggling to find anything in the French records as they may fall somewhere in the middle being British citizens in France - would they be required to register any births?
But i will keep fighting the records. I will find the answer eventually.
Tuesday, 15 February 2011
Hello!
Well, why have I decided to join the blogging world? I guess on the off-chance that someone might read it and be able to offer help with a brickwall or a link to something useful.
My intention is to witter on about the research I am doing into my family tree. I am not, as far as I know, related to anyone of note. No heroes, nobility or anything just a good solid working Midlands family.
The names i will be researching are:
Woodward, Meakin, Dolman, Thompson, Mazey, Fox, Cox, Sansom Fox, Hemsley, Tomkins. Mainly based in the East Midlands but with some forrays into the West Midlands as well.
We have our fair share of disreputable characters from what i can see, mainly multiple wives and illigitimate kids nothing too dramatic.
When I first started this journey of discovery i said i didn't want my family to be beige. I got my wish.
I did find, however, that you cannot believe what your grandparents tell you as "fact". My paternal grandmother always said her father was buried with "Full Military Honours". I later found that he had a paupers burial in an unmarked mass grave. I can only assume that as he was an ex soldier the local british legion turned up with a wreath although I find it hard to believe.
My maternal grandfather used to tell tails of a distant uncle who was an apothecary and would stride around with a silver topped stick. Well, he has failed to materialise. They are all Ag Labs!
My maternal grandmother was adamant that she was related to Florence Nightingale. This looked promising as we had a prayer book given to my grandmother by Hannah Nightingale (said to be a cousin of Florence??) but it now seems that it was supposition based on having teh same surname.
My husbands family are no different. At various stages his parent said they were of irish stock, from itinerant Romanian gypsies etc etc. It seems, as far as i can find out, that they are all from Birmingham. The closest the get to ireland is drinking the odd glass of Guinness.
One story that seems to have some legs is that my maternal G G Grandmother was French. The census returns do support that she was "Borin in France, British Subject" so I am not quite sure what that means.
After a lot of emails to the Calais registrars office in my very best French, I got a reply that there was a birth int he right year to the right surname but her given name was different so I am now confused. I am hoping to get over the Calais to see the records for myself soon.
Anyway, back to the grind. I have a confession - I am mainly an e-genealogist so far. Trawling the various websites for nuggets of info. I am also trying to collate the gaps for future trips to records offices in Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Shropshire and possibly Birmingham......
The next step is to find out where my G G Grandfather was in 1891...... He doesn't seem to be in any census returns.
My intention is to witter on about the research I am doing into my family tree. I am not, as far as I know, related to anyone of note. No heroes, nobility or anything just a good solid working Midlands family.
The names i will be researching are:
Woodward, Meakin, Dolman, Thompson, Mazey, Fox, Cox, Sansom Fox, Hemsley, Tomkins. Mainly based in the East Midlands but with some forrays into the West Midlands as well.
We have our fair share of disreputable characters from what i can see, mainly multiple wives and illigitimate kids nothing too dramatic.
When I first started this journey of discovery i said i didn't want my family to be beige. I got my wish.
I did find, however, that you cannot believe what your grandparents tell you as "fact". My paternal grandmother always said her father was buried with "Full Military Honours". I later found that he had a paupers burial in an unmarked mass grave. I can only assume that as he was an ex soldier the local british legion turned up with a wreath although I find it hard to believe.
My maternal grandfather used to tell tails of a distant uncle who was an apothecary and would stride around with a silver topped stick. Well, he has failed to materialise. They are all Ag Labs!
My maternal grandmother was adamant that she was related to Florence Nightingale. This looked promising as we had a prayer book given to my grandmother by Hannah Nightingale (said to be a cousin of Florence??) but it now seems that it was supposition based on having teh same surname.
My husbands family are no different. At various stages his parent said they were of irish stock, from itinerant Romanian gypsies etc etc. It seems, as far as i can find out, that they are all from Birmingham. The closest the get to ireland is drinking the odd glass of Guinness.
One story that seems to have some legs is that my maternal G G Grandmother was French. The census returns do support that she was "Borin in France, British Subject" so I am not quite sure what that means.
After a lot of emails to the Calais registrars office in my very best French, I got a reply that there was a birth int he right year to the right surname but her given name was different so I am now confused. I am hoping to get over the Calais to see the records for myself soon.
Anyway, back to the grind. I have a confession - I am mainly an e-genealogist so far. Trawling the various websites for nuggets of info. I am also trying to collate the gaps for future trips to records offices in Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Shropshire and possibly Birmingham......
The next step is to find out where my G G Grandfather was in 1891...... He doesn't seem to be in any census returns.
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